Thiefs in AD&D (and perhaps others)

So recently my friend decided to DM AD&D. I have a busy schedule these days, but I figured I would attempt to play with them when I can. Of course, as any good player, I decided to research things to get ideas on how to play my character and wugnot. One thing you need to keep in mind is that I intend to play thief, but pretend that I am a ranger or something like that. Basically, my party doesn't know I am a thief. I am doing this not only because it would be funny, but also a challenge. I have to figure out ways to use my abilities while making sure the other party members don't catch on. Not to mention it is more realistic on a role-playing stand point as a real thief won't just walk up to some random party it just let on who he/she really is. Trust has to be built.

Any case, something I found often was people being against thieves in D&D. Their arguments are thus:

1) Thieves are not a needed class. The abilities of a thief is something everyone can do. What about a Merchant or something else? Why have a separate class for them?

2) The ability system of the thief for OD&D, AD&D, and wugnot is a skill increase system which seems out of place for the game.

3) In combat, it sucks. It is all about the sneak attack.

4) A thief in the party prevents others from trying to solve the problem themselves. Thus giving the thief a lot of spotlight. There is traps? Send the thief in. (Mini-game begins). There be enemies with information? Send thief in to spy. (Mini-Game begins). Need some more money? Send the thief out to pick some pockets. (Mini-Game begins)

5) The people who play them often step on other players toes. Such as stealing from their own party members, backstabbing their own party members, and taking extra loot for themselves.


Okay, now I am pretty sure that the thief class was not a part of Dungeons and Dragons when the game first came out, but I know that the class coming into being was something done more on player choice. My guess, is that people needed someone who had a better chance to do thieving abilities well. So I am a believer that thieves are needed, if not all the time, some of the time as a hire-able NPC.  With that said, I could be biased on this, but these are my opinions against these arguements:

1) While, true, most every PC out their will have the ability to do some thief skills to some means or another, the question is "Can they do it well?" It seems like a simple task sneaking up on someone, but when was the last time you went sneaking around? When was the last time you knew someone who was good at sneaking around? My friends and I has played real life games where you need to be stealthy to win. One of my friends is really good at sneaking around.The only hope the rest of us had on hearing him was if he slipped up now and then. Otherwise, he made no noise. And if he did, you wouldn't think anything of the noise he made.
So, it goes without saying that some people are simply better at certain tasks than others, no matter how simple the task seems. There are many things that can cause someone to fail a task that a thief can do. When you sneak around (if you ever), one thing that will often hinder amateurs is their heart. Most people will get excited at the chance that they will get caught. Their heart pounds on their chest, and this nervousness can cause them to make mistakes. Naturally, anyone sneaking around is going to be worried in some way about getting caught, but someone who is good at it will be able to control that fear.
Furthermore, if someone wants to argue that "Anyone can do thief skills," I bring the counter-argument to the table that "Anyone can do anything." Sure, a mage sucks at swing a sword around, but will he do it well? No, he was not trained at it, and has not been using the sword for as long as a fighter has. In theory, anyone can learn spells too, but their success rate is low since they haven't had the study and practice a mage has. In real life, this goes for the same. Anyone can learn history. Anyone can learn math. However, can a non-history major research and dig up materials as fast and as effective as a History Major? Can a non-Math Major work magic with numbers as well as a Math Major? Well all learn and specialize in our own separate fields. In fact, many fields has even more specific specialization. Go to a hospital. You will find many doctors who specialize in one field or another. So what is so weird about someone being good at being a thief?

Lastly, for the issue of not having separate special classes like Merchant, there is an official class Merchant in the Republic of Darokin Gazetteer and their are many homebrew classes in sources like the Dragon magazine. (The Bard class came into existence in a Dragon magazine, I seem to remember)

2) I do agree, that the abilities of a thief seems out of place NOW. Nowadays, the AD&D thief abilities could look something similar to something from Third Edition. However, back then, that was just a specialization for the class. It was a means for the Thief class to be something separate from the other classes. I can see how some people may feel that it feels weird because of the amount of customization you can put into a Thief character. Couldn't you customize other character too? Wasn't it up to you to use what spells you wanted to use for a Mage or a Cleric? Wasn't it up to you to use what weapons you want to use for a Fighter? Granted, Third Edition had a bunch more ways to customize characters with just the core rules to your own liking, but that is now. D&D back in the day was new, and some of the rules were more like experiments. Basically what I am saying here is that D&D changed majorly over the years. It is hard to look at it through the eyes of players 40 years ago. (Yes, it has nearly been that long).

3) I cannot deny that a Thief is not the best choice if you wish to go the combat heavy campaign. While a simple breeze could kill a mage, the mage at least has the abilities to command the elements into a destructive force. The thief...well...Sneak Attack Bitch. It is very hard to deny this truth right here. However, when I think of  a Thief, I don't think of them as combatants. Since most of thievery is based on the fact you don't get caught, combat for a thief should be more focused on being fast and not playing fair. Which is why the backstab ability for the Thief makes sense as it centers around that idea. To me, a Thief that goes around killing everything in their path is a poor Thief anyways. Why have sneaking abilities if you don't need to use it as everyone is dead? A Thief should be able to avoid combat all together. So, since your life was spent around the concept of evasion, why would your combat abilities be good? I know there are people in real life who can do stealth and combat, but those people are trained in those fields. Think of this in gameplay that they gained levels over time.

4) This argument I can't fairly say anything against as the first thing I think of when someone hogs all the spotlight in a D&D games is, "BAD DM! BAD!" A DM should figure out ways to make every character shine in some way. Every challenge a DM comes up with should be able to be solved by using someone's abilities in the party. The DM can even make a series of challenges that relays on everyone's unique abilities. I think I see what they are arguing about though. I think they are saying that the Thieves abilities  are something that are time consuming. Furthermore, as the Thief is better at his abilities than everyone else, it is easy to just rely on the Thief and just watch the Thief flaunt his abilities around. I still see this as "BAD DM! BAD!" One, just because you can come up with many reasons for someone to roll, doesn't mean you should. Sure, you can make it hard to pickpocket someone by having a couple of rolls to make it successful (pickpocket, sneak, hiding, ect. ect) But why? A rule I learned early is to don't use the dice too much. Yes, the players may succeed more, but your job is to provide challenges, not to throw enough at them to make it possible to fail at every task. If a Thief has a very high chance to pickpockets, let them. Also, if someone succeeds at one Move Silently check, why ask him to keep making Move Silently checks? Two or three checks is fine, but 20 or 30 checks? How long are they freakin moving silently? If you want to make something challenging for a Thief, make it an interesting show for the others. Something the others can enjoy watching, but don't do it too much. Put those points in for when it is crucial for the Thief to succeed. If it is not exciting, don't make it needlessly complex (after all, we shouldn't make rolls to breath every second of the day...)
Also, on the matter of the rest of the party relying on the Thief's abilities too much, I still say "BAD DM! BAD!" The traditional dungeon that you would expect to go through will have Loot, Monsters, Doors, and Traps. So, if the DM stays unoriginal, he could just throw in a bunch of traps for NO REASON and a bunch of lock doors for NO REASON and a bunch of monsters for NO REASON.
DM: You see a locked door. It is obvious that it hasn't been open for years. It will take several rolls for the Thief to open it.
Thief: Kay! *roll, roll, roll* Success! again...
DM: In a room that has no other doors in it, you see a horde of goblins.
Party: WHY!?!
Really, why? Why make a dungeon that does not make sense? If there are traps every step of the way, why haven't the monsters activated them? Why is a dragon living next door to a vampire? You don't need to have all that stuff to have a good dungeon. You just need something that can challenge the party. It is good to have something that uses the thief abilities once in a while, but don't make it needed to have a Thief in the party to complete a dungeon. I often avoid this by having puzzles or riddles in my dungeons at some point. That why, the party can work as a group to solve them.

5) Players that do that, intentionally do things to mess with other players, will do that with any class. It is just that with a thief, it is easier to do that with as you can send secret notes to the DM and get away with it. Some players hear the word "Thief" and think they should just cause whatever mayhem for the lolz. I personally think this is bad role playing as a real Thief would want partners who he could semi-trust (and vice versa) His reputation may make it hard to trust someone fully, but he shouldn't go around causing his partners to mistrust him. It is just bad form, and bad for security. Even if you play a Chaotic Evil Thief, you should be smart enough to know that you need partners that you can trust to be successful.
Now, Out Of Character, the person is likely just being a jerk. While, it is possible to have fun with a player like this, if the other party members (or DM) are not having fun, then something is wrong, and the gaming group needs to discuss these problems. D&D takes up too much time for someone to not be enjoying it. The game needs to be designed so that everyone playing can have fun. Also, keep in mind that everyone's idea of fun is different.
Take example my Thief. I am hiding the fact that I am a thief, and won't really being using my abilities unless I feel like it. Some gaming groups would get mad about that. They would be arguing with me about why I not using my abilities and so forth, but with this gaming group, I know that they will get a good laugh at it. I also know that they will understand that I am doing it for the challenge and for the role-playing aspect. They also know that despite the fact I might be role-playing an unhelpful character, Out of Character I would be contributing what thoughts and ideas I can for the party. However, that is them. And we have been gaming together for a while.
Basically, what I am getting at is that a lot of stress and headaches with the "backstabbing thief" can be avoided if people just talk to one another.



Well, all that is my thoughts about people being anti-Thief. In the end, I will admit that if the gaming group has doesn't want Thieves, there is no point in crying and complaining about it. I would expect the same from anyone who is Anti-Thief. Sorry for standing on a Soap-Box here, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.